if you are reading this please feel free to comment with any feedback or if you are able to offer up any other information or photographs to add to the site. Kind regards, Simon.
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Schorback Ancestry Comments
Jul 30, 2021
Comments
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Aimee McKenzie says (Jul 30, 2021):
Great job finding all the information. It's a very interesting read! April 22, 2018 02:30:19
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Hanisch-Drendel says (Jul 30, 2021):
Hi Simon! It is great to find your homepage today. Indeed, it has been interesting for me to read both, your historical notes on Jaenschwalde and linguistic explanation of your surname SCHORBACK. During my research in 2006 I found the same places SCHORBACH on the French-German border and in Hessen. Either could be seen as the place of origin for your first ancestor by the name of SCHORBACH/SCHORBACK. As to the SCHORBACK spelling, I have seen it as a linguistic adaptation in writing to the English pronunciation of the German language "ch"-ending. Yet it puzzles me to find SCHORBACKs via the present German online telephone directory www.dastelefonbuch.de That means there are and have been persons by this spelling variant of your surname already back in Germany. SCHORBACH and SCHORBACK are definitely distinct in pronunciation in German. So one might imagine a different origin of the surname. As you mentioned, Jaenschwalde is the settlement area of Sorbs with their Slav language, perhaps one might find a different meaning of the surname by more researching into Sorb language. Unfortunately I am not familiar with this language. But I know that the neighbouring Slav languages, such as Czech or Polish, have systems of putting suffixes to names, one thereof is "-bak". Could the SCHORBACK variant be a Germanised version of an original Sorb surname? Why I am interested in this all? Yes, it is because of my paternal ancestors which are from the small rural town Bobersberg am Bober , now called Bobrowice in Poland. The link to your Anna Maria Emilie SCHORBACK , your Martin K. SCHORBACK´S daughter, is that she had married Carl August Gustav DRENDEL, the emigrated Johann Karl Wilhelm DRENDEL´s , master shoemaker of Bobersberg am Bober, district of Crossen an der Oder, East Brandenburg, surviving son who was part of this DRENDEL family group emigrating to Australia in 1857. I started to research my paternal DRENDEL ancestors in 2003, and it happened that I found this book "Drendel in Australia" compiled by Desma J. Heinrich, nee Drendel. I contacted her and she made copies of pages from the book for me, so I learnt that Anna Maria Emilie SCHORBACK was the mother of quite a few DRENDEL persons to live in Australia. I worked through the microfilm data of Bobersberg church records to find my own ancestors, which are a master tailors line in this small town. I tried to connect them to the shoemakers´ DRENDEL line, but so far was not successful because of valid church record pages missing, either through decay or fire, or destruction after WW II. But one thing is for sure, all DRENDEL in Bobersberg am Bober, in the periods 17th through 18th century, have definitely known each other. You can´t escape your neighbours in small places, can you ? Also both DRENDEL, the emigrated shoemaker Johann Karl Wilhelm and my tailor ancestor Johann Wilhelm August DRENDEL together worked in the city council around the 1800s something, after the Napoleonic Wars and defeat of Napoleon. This is what I found through church record entries. Another thing I would like to address is an error in ancestry.com database which I also recognised as transfered to your family tree. Here it reads as to Carl August Gustav: - "Born: 17th November 1845 - Bobersberg, Riesa-Grossenhain," The place name is not correct because this Bobersberg in Riesa-Grossenhain is not the right Bobersberg. (It is only a sort of residential quarter of Grossenhain, not an independent place). The DRENDEL people of Bobersberg and of many other places in East Brandenburg, now belonging to Poland, more precisely in villages of the district towns of CROSSEN, ODER, and GRUENBERG, ODER, (their names today are KROSNO ODRZANSKIE and Zielona Gora), have nothing to do with Bobersberg, Riesa-Grossenhain, Sachsen. I would very much like we could correct this error of place names because it is misleading genealogist research. The valid entry is:"Bobersberg am Bober, Kreis Crossen, Oder, Ost-Brandenburg."
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Hanisch-Drendel says (Jul 30, 2021):
Hanisch-Drendel said... Hi Simon! This is the transcription I found for HANS SCHORBACK in the Ortsfamilienbuch Jaenschwalde database. The format below is a bit confusing, the original website is better and you can click links to the person sheets of the SCHORBACKs. It is in German of course. If you like to get Hans Schorback´s details translated, give me a feedback. Bye, Christa Hans SCHORBACK * 17.10.1802 in Jänschwalde + 13.02.1835 in Jänschwalde Bemerkungen: (notes) Angabe für geändert: '17. Feb 16' Konfession: OFB GL+J Ehefrau ebenfalls vor 02.1864 verstorben ; Alter bei Trauung: 24 J.; Einwilligung gegeben: Eltern; schon verehelicht gewesen: nein, G..... (left to decipher) Alter (J/M/T): 32/3/27 (Geburtsdatum errechnet); hinterlassen: Wittwe, 4x Kinder-min. (das älteste vor der Ehe erzeugt); Todesursache: Pocken begraben: 16.02.1835 in Jänschwalde Beruf: Einlieger zu Jänschwalde, Dienstknecht Familien (families) 1.Ehegatte: (1st spouse) Maria =SK GROCH * 1804 in Jänschwalde oo 14.09.1828 in Jänschwalde Kinder (children): 1x Kind-min(35) SCHORBACK * in Jänschwalde Martin SCHORBACK * 1828 in Jänschwalde Hanns SCHORBACK * 1831 in Jänschwalde, + 1837 in Jänschwalde Christian =jüS SCHORBACK * 1834 in Jänschwalde, Heinersbrück Bemerkungen:(notes) Eltern (parents) Vater: (father) Martin SCHORBACK * 11.01.1780 in lebte in Jänschwalde + 07.04.1840 in Jänschwalde Mutter: (mother) Maria KROLL * 16.12.1780 in lebte in Jänschwalde + 28.09.1846 in Jänschwalde .......... HANS SCHORBACKs Geschwister (siblings): Marie SCHORBACK * in Jänschwalde , lebte in Jänschwalde Martin SCHORBACK * 1806 in lebte in Jänschwalde, Groß Lieskow, + 1870 in Groß Lieskow Anna SCHORBACK * 1809 in Jänschwalde Liesa SCHORBACK * 1825 in Jänschwalde Quellen:(sources) B216-125-17 (Tod Hans); B166-046-4; B216-031-5 (Ehe Hans-Marie); B216-034-30 (Geb.Martin); B216-065-18 (Geb.Hanns); B216-106-46 (Geb.Christian); B216-113-13 (Tod Hans); B216-204-11 (Ehe Martin-Anna) letzte Änderung OFB: 15.11.2016 June 19, 2019 04:19:55 Hanisch-Drendel said... Hi Simon! Working on the principle „never give up“ I went back to carefully reading through your ancestor HANS SCHORBACK´s death entry of 1835 in the original church book image once again. Yesterday I could not read some words in one box properly, Suetterlin is always a challenge, but these words are really important. Today I could figure out what is written there. The respective box is this: „Ob der Verstorbene einen Gatten und majorenne oder minorenne Kinder hinterlassen hat“ (If the deceased has left behind a spouse and children of or under age). The entry in Suetterlin writing is this: „Wittwe und 4 majorenne Kinder von welchen das älteste vor der geschlossenen Ehe und die anderen aber in der Ehe erzeugt.“ Translates as „Widow and 4 children of age of which the eldest was begatted before the marriage took place and the others within the marriage/ in wedlock“. Thinking about the text of the entry, produces questions . Martin K. was born on the day of his parents´ marriage in September 1828, but begatted before marriage. So, he is the eldest child referred to in the entry? Seems so. Hans can be his father, but just as well could not. If not the biological father, this may link up with your Royal Legend, Maria SCHORBACK, nee GROCH, would be the maid who had fallen pregnant to a Prussian prince? What does the letter „K“ stand for in „Martin K SCHORBACK“ as listed in your family tree? In Martin´s birth entry of 1828 there is only „Martin“, no „K“. Have you got the names of the remaining 3 children who Hans SCHORBACK left behind in 1835? Are they mentioned in your family tree? Hans SCHORBACK, married to Maria GROCH, died of smallpox at the age of 32. In the year 1835 from January to March, there are two more entries of deceased SCHORBACKs: ANNA SCHORBACK, illegitimate daughter of the Colonist widow Maria SCHORBACK, died at the age of 2 of unknown reasons in Jaenschwalde, leaves behind the mother. MARTIN SCHORBACK at Jaenschwalde, Colonist, died of smallpox at the age of 23 in March 1835, leaves behind a sister under age. There seems to have been a smallpox epidemic raging in and around Jaenschwalde during these months in 1835. There were 11 deaths of smallpox out of 23 deceased listed on that one page alone for January through March 1835. I have researched SCHORBACK in our German Genealogical Club (Verein für Computergenealogie) database where there is a separate database linked to, which is an ever expanding list of so-called Ortsfamilienbuecher (local families residential lists/Online Heritage Books) for any place in Germany, former German territories and former German settlements in foreign countries. One URL to get there is www.ortsfamilienbuecher.de . For Brandenburg you will find the link "Gross Lieskow and Jaenschwalde " Ortsfamilienbuch. Here you can check SCHORBACK family data assembled by a Club member having transcribed the church records of Jaenschwalde parish. I am going to refer to this in another comment, for space reasons. Bye, Christa June 19, 2019 03:51:12 Hanisch-Drendel said... Hi Simon! I have noticed in my previous comment I used a wrong English vocabulary for German "ehelich". Quote:"... I could not find it stated here, I must admit. It says in German Martin is "ehelich"/out of wedlock. ..." It should mean "Martin is of wedlock", entered in the church records as being a legitimate child. Sorry! Bye, Christa June 19, 2019 11:14:02 Hanisch-Drendel said... Hi Simon! I would like to refer to a paragraph of yours from your homepage, Royal Legend. Quote: "...Upon researching the family tree, there is a curious bit of information that has been uncovered. Martin K Schorback, was born on the same day that his parents Hans Schorback and Maria Grochs were married. Needless to say, this would have been quite a busy day in these ancestral times of 1828. On the birth certificate, both Hans and Maria are listed as the parents, although the marriage document has the words ‘step-father’ listed. This could point to Hans (b: 1804) not being the biological father of Martin (b:1828). ..." I looked at these two ancestry.com original image copies of church books. One is Martin SCHORBACK´s birth entry - 14th September 1828; it is clearly entered that he is a child of wedlock : "ehelich"; his mother is entered as Maria Grochin (the "-in" ending is an old-fashioned grammatical style to mark a surname to determine a female. So her actual name is GROCH.) Baptism was on September 21, 1828, with the pastor/preacher Saban officiating. If you had this church record copy as reference for stating Hans SCHORBACK is not the biological father of Martin, I could not find it stated here, I must admit. It says in German Martin is "ehelich"/out of wedlock. Do you think this would be a cover-up of different facts? The other original image copy was that of Hans SCHORBACK´S marriage to Maria GROCH on September 14, 1828.. The scribe entered "GROCHS" here, but the "-s" ending is only a grammatical feature with no special meaning. The bride´s surname is GROCH. What I saw to be special is the entry for Maria Groch´s father Gottlieb Groch. It says she, Maria, is "Stieftochter des Kolonist Gottlieb Groch zu Jenschwalde" which translates as "stepdaughter of the colonist Gottlieb Groch at Jenschwalde". May I ask where you have found Hans SCHORBACK to be Martin´s stepfather? Hans Schorback´s father himself carries the name Martin SCHORBACK as well. Have you got a copy of Martin K. SCHORBACK and Anna SELLENKA´s marriage? Bye, Christa June 18, 2019 10:34:01 Hanisch-Drendel said... Hi Simon! Previous comment continued.... During my lasting research as to my paternal DRENDEL ancestors I was able to contact persons in the USA, in the Alsace, France, and some DRENDEL descendants in Australia. Especially my research in the USA gave me insights into the regions in Europe from where DRENDEL immigrants migrated from. You will find the Alsace, Austria and,of course, Germany (more the eastern parts, partly Poland nowadays). DRENDEL families from the Black Forest migrated to the Alsace, from there to the USA. Another route was going to the Hapsburg crown lands of Hungary, Bessarabia, Voiwodina, Banat and Walachei. This came in the wake of the pushing back of the Turkish Ottoman Army to the Balkans in various battles till 1718. The regions lost population, and later the Hapsburg Empress Maria Theresia invited settlers to come from western parts of Germany. Part of the south eastern Black Forest even belonged to Austria (the Hapsburgs´property) at that time. Some DRENDELs migrated south east along this line. Others migrated north east to East Brandenburg. As to DRENDEL emigration to Australia, it was virtually only this one DRENDEL family from Bobersberg, the master shoemaker Johann Karl Wilhelm DRENDEL with his small family in 1957 who make up the DRENDELs in Australia. In Desma Heinrich´s book there is another emigrant mentioned who contributed his story to DRENDEL in Australia. It was the late Helmut DRENDEL who left Germany after WW II and moved to Hobart, Tasmania. His ancestors, however, originated from a small place called Lochwitz, situated just 7 km outside Crossen, Oder, in north east direction. So you can practically count his ancestors to the same family group that once migrated to the Crossen region in the Neumark, East Brandenburg, from the Black Forest supposedly. I have known from Desma Heinrich´s book that in your SCHORBACK line there were two marriages SCHORBACK -DRENDEL and DRENDEL-SCHORBACK on Australian grounds. So you can include the idea there is a connection of your ancestor relatives to the Black Forest in Germany, in your family tree ! Back to Boberberg on the Bober. There is a website that gives some interesting details of the history connected with Bobersberg and Crossen, Oder. It was created by former inhabitants of the region who had to leave when the region became Polish or were evacuated westward when the Russian Army approached during WW II. They re-collected what they knew about the region from childhood years and compiled some historic details on various villages and towns of the district of Crossen an der Oder in addition. The only problem it might create for Australian readers, this website is in German only. But one can see pictures, old postcard motives and maps. So just try it! The URL is www.heimatkreis-crossen-oder.de. You can click subpages for the towns Crossen/Oder, Bobersberg , Sommerfeld. When you click "Kreisdoerfer" you get to a grid with further links to individual villages, most of them being active links. Only, German language again, but you get really interesting details here about life there in old times. Cheers, Christa June 18, 2019 03:13:00 Hanisch-Drendel said... Hi Simon, I am back once more because I have exhausted my free space in the box with my comment before. It should continue like this: The English language entry for Carl August Gustav DRENDEL´s birthplace would be this: "Bobersberg on the Bober River, District of Crossen on the Oder, Neumark, East Brandenburg, (now Bobrowice Lubuskie, Powiat Krosnienski)". The DRENDEL families have probably been called to come as settlers to the region Neumark, East Brandenburg, on the right bank of the river Neisse. It has plausibly happened right after the end of the War of Thirty Years (1618 to 1648) in central Europe. In this war, large areas around central Europe and especially Germany, were depopulated, so local aristrocrat rulers wanted their properties to yield crops and fortune again, so inviting settlers from other , more western areas, to migrate east. As to DRENDEL I have found evidence of their presence reflected in a document of 1694. This document is the Decem List of the catholic parish of these two villages - Gross Lessen and Wenig Lessen - in the district of Gruenberg, Lower Silesia. Both villages are not far away from Bobersberg. The Decem List is the church inventory of who has to pay the Tenth to the church, church taxes so to speak. Another mention of DRENDEL and one TRENDEL is in the KLASSIFIKATION 1718/19 ordered by the Prussian King Friedrich Wilhelm I who became king in the year 1713. He discovered that the hitherto base for taxation of his subjects was faulty, and got a new evaluation of property in towns and villages done. This became known as Klassifikation of 1718/19. It covers all places in his kingdom by place names and relevant surnames of subjects as his taxpayers. I found DRENDELs and one Trendel in the villages Rusdorf and Bothendorf, district of Crossen. Both very close to Bobersberg. Bobersberg itself did not show DRENDEL at that time. So I suppose these families first started off in the surrounding villages. Bobersberg was a rural town, but independent, i.e. it did not have an immediate aristrocratic ruler other than the king at that time contrary to earlier centuries, whose possession Bobersberg would have been; it was a free town and had free citizens. So it was attractive to move there if possible, provided the craftsmen Guilds allowed more craftsmen in. But the latter were restrictive, kind of "oligopolists" with their different crafts they were representing, avoiding competition in town. DRENDELs must have come to Bobersberg a little later than 1718. The church records show DRENDEL persons have lived there, by calculation, from mid 1750 on. Due to missing older church records for Bobersberg, I could not determine if the oldest DRENDELs were born in Bobersberg already or just moved there. If it interests you, I can give you more data for the emigrant Johann Karl Wilhelm DRENDEL, his parents for example, brothers etc., the same as well as to his third wife Maria Dorothea Sophia, nee NOACK. Researching the places of origin of DRENDEL families before migrating east, there are two likely regions. One is situated in Bavaria, here in that part which is called Mittelfranken (Middle Franconia), situated roughly around Nuremberg. There you find a village by the name of TRENDEL, the oldest mentioning of it goes back to around 1150, when an aristocratic family of lower rank settled there in a, nowadays no longer existing, castle by the name of TRENDEL (which translates here as "rounded-shaped mountain sticking out from the environment" in old German language. For comparison of the type of castle see www.trendelburg.de, situated in Hessen, which is a still complete castle of the same construction and layout dating back to Medieval Times. Both castles may have been built around the same time. For the village of TRENDEL see www.polsingen.de/Bildergalerie/Neue Bilder. It is the picture gallery with photos of the village TRENDEL and others. The other very likely place of DRENDEL origin is the Black Forest...ctd.. June 18, 2019 01:37:36
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Anne Fraser says (Jul 30, 2021):
Schorback said... Hi Anne, thanks for taking the time to reply. If you are able, would love to touch base and work out what information we might be able to work on together? my email is si79@hotmail.com regards, Simon. July 30, 2021 02:47:46 Anne Fraser said... Thank you so much for this very interesting information about the Bells. I have been working on this side of the family for years, but only recently have started seriously to try to tie up loose ends. It is so exciting to see all the information you have and I would love to see the Bible one day. I have a photo of my great grandparents' wedding, William Thomas Bell and Annie Coglin and some of "Bill's" siblings and his father are in the photo. I also have a photo of the reunion I held at Willunga in 1980 which many Bells attended. June 25, 2021 04:44:10
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FJ says (Sep 17, 2022):
Hello my name is FJ. And I come from the Janetzky family from the Czech Republic. I'm doing my family tree. But I only got as far back as 1700. I suppose around that year the Janetzky family came to the Czech Republic from Poland. If you'd like to see my family tree. Or if you have more information. Then you can contact me.
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Schorback says (Sep 17, 2022):
Hi FJ, I can't see your email details, but if you email me si79@hotmail.com I'd love to chat. Cheers,
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Karen mitchell says (Sep 5, 2024):
Thank you for posting this family history Emma Auguste Sonntag is my great grand mother, she married Edward August Grocke. I believe they 6 children. I am dabbling in the family trees . And this is a great help thanks again.
